Piotr Włoczyk is interviewing Carol Tobias, head of the National Right to Life Committee, the largest pro-life organization in the US.
PIOTR WŁOCZYK: Are you ready for this battle?
CAROL TOBIAS: We’re ready. For 50 years we have known that if the Supreme Court reverses the decision in Roe v. Wade and the question of the legality of abortion returns to the politicians who govern the individual states, the other side will not take it calmly. We are ready to defend the rights of the unborn.
Did you follow the situation in Poland in the fall of 2020, when the Polish Constitutional Court prohibited the so-called eugenic abortion?
Yes, I saw that the opponents of this decision reacted very violently.
Our churches were attacked, priests and public figures with conservative views were harassed, the extreme left tried to paralyze the nation. It is already evident that America will be at least as violent.
I am aware that this will be a very hard time for us. I don’t want anyone to get hurt, but if it comes to really drastic situations, I think it will all do a lot of harm to the people who support such fierce protests. Most Americans want to debate in a civilized way. But if pro-abortion activists start harassing churches and believers, if they threaten Supreme Court judges and politicians who support the protection of the unborn, I’m sure the majority of our society will oppose it.
In Poland, the protests went exactly in this direction – they were taken over by the pro-abortion extremists, and their form of protest offended “ordinary people”. Even our opposition began to tone down the atmosphere, arguing that calling for the lifting of all restrictions on abortion is a very harmful proposal.
In America, Democrats, going hand in hand with the abortion industry, announced that there must be no obstacles in access to abortion. No restrictions! Yet very few Americans believe abortion should be legal throughout the nine months of pregnancy. Since Democrats consider any limits to be a blow to women’s rights and are therefore reluctant to support legal solutions that impose certain restrictions on access to abortion, I am sure they will lose out in the eyes of Americans.
The White House recently stressed through spokeswoman Jen Psaka that Joe Biden also supports lifting all restrictions.
Of course, because such a position is required by the party headquarters of every democratic candidate running for office. The absence of clarity on this matter would result in ostracism on the part of one’s own allies. Undoubtedly, we will face an extremely turbulent election campaign ahead of the November elections to Congress.
Why do you think there was a leak from the US Supreme Court?
There are two theories about this. Either someone sympathizing with the pro-choice movement wanted to warn his/her side to organize a campaign of pressure on the judges and motivate the Democrats in Congress to act, or a pro-lifer of the Supreme Court deemed that it was necessary to inform the public about the attempts to overthrow Roe v. Wade, so that none of the sitting judges change their mind. But this is only speculation. I don’t know if we’ll ever know the truth about this. It seems to me that neither side benefits from this leak.
It seems that the US Supreme Court had a majority (five out of nine judges) to overturn the highly controversial 1973 ruling that legalized abortion in all 50 states. Do you think that neither judge will change their mind before the final decision is made on this matter?
I hope that nothing will change, but let’s remember that the document we are talking about is already three months old and unfortunately something could have changed over this time period.
Democrats already have a contingency plan – if Roe v. Wade is overturned, it is always possible to pass a bill in Congress to guarantee the same level of availability of abortion.
While the Democrats have a majority in Congress right now, nothing like that will happen in this term. The “filibuster” rule states that in order to pass such a bill in the Senate, it is necessary to have a minimum of 60 votes (out of 100). Democrats don’t stand a chance to gather that many votes in this Congressional term. That is why the November elections will be so important. We must now do everything we can to help select as many candidates as possible who are pro-life. For if the Democrats get a lot of new seats in Congress, they will get rid of the “filibuster”, vote in favor of an extreme abortion law and even add a few new judges to the Supreme Court in order to gain a majority in it. We must make every effort to prevent this from happening.
American liberal-left media argues that this year the topic of abortion will give the Democrats a lot of fuel in the election campaign…
I don’t think so. In each subsequent election, the issue of abortion mobilizes the pro-lifers more than the opposing camp. Of course, this time the pro-choice party will be more motivated than in the previous elections, but we will also be even more determined.
In addition, it is evident that the Democrats misjudge the polls. If someone says that abortion should be legal, they will immediately assume that this vote will go to them. There is, however, a very large group of voters who believe that while abortion should be legal in some cases, it absolutely cannot be as completely unrestricted as Democrats wish.
In the coming months, we will be carrying out a huge information campaign. We need to make as many Americans as possible aware of what the Democratic position really means.
What happened to the Democrats in recent years? As late as a quarter of a century ago, then-President Bill Clinton repeated that abortion should be “safe, legal, and rare”. Today it is unthinkable – talking about abortion as something “rare” is perceived by the left as an attack on women’s rights.
True, now politicians from this party believe that opposing the legalization of abortion throughout the entire period of pregnancy is like opposing appendicitis. I think it was mainly because of the money. Democrats are getting more and more money from the abortion industry with each subsequent election. We are now talking, most likely, about billions of dollars that the abortion lobby has invested in the Democratic Party. And with money come expectations…
Even at the turn of the century, the “Democrats for life” organization was quite active…
This organization still exists, but it has become a marginalized group that has absolutely no impact on the political environment of its own party. Today, there is only one pro-life representative in the House of Representatives and one pro-life senator in the Senate from the Democratic Party! In the Senate, it’s the well-known Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who is extremely popular in his state and therefore does not need to be afraid of the party headquarters. In turn, in the House of Representatives the Democratic pro-lifer is from Texas, but his position is much weaker than that of Manchin. He is constantly under fire from his party colleagues and his re-election is under serious doubt.
Democrats are unable to say “no” to the abortion lobby. There is a draft bill in our Congress that states that if a baby survives a late abortion, it should be treated in the same way as a premature baby who was born under normal conditions. Democrats would never support such a bill! If a child was to be aborted, but somehow managed to survive, they would not be able to recognize it as a person who has the right to life!
In California, on the other hand, which is trying to become an abortion leader among American states, there has recently been a lot of publicity about a proposed bill by Democrats that would prohibit the prosecution of those guilty of the perinatal death of a newborn. Pro-lifers are raising alarms that this opens the door for infanticide, e.g. through deliberate neglect, the effect of which is the death of a child.
I know it’s hard to imagine, but this bill will most likely pass and the governor of California will sign it. This state is extremely hostile to life.
In Poland, hardly anyone realizes that in America there are some places where a woman, even in the 9th month of pregnancy, just prior to giving birth, can legally abort a healthy child that does not endanger her health or life in any way. These are rare cases, of course, but nonetheless such unimaginable stories do happen.
Unfortunately, we are one of the seven countries in the world that allows such atrocities. We have centers in the USA that perform late term abortions “on demand”. Such states as Connecticut, Vermont, and Illinois allow such “on demand” abortions.
Finally, however, I would like to emphasize that – contrary to what our opponents claim – the pro-life movement in the US does not want to imprison women who have an abortion. We look at them as victims. Women are often forced to have an abortion by their partners or family, or due to their exposure to the omnipresent liberal propaganda they do not understand that a little human being, their own child, is killed as a result.